I have used Arch for >13 years (btw) and use the terminal every single session. I also work with Linux servers daily, so I tried the other families with DEs (Debian/Ubuntu, RHEL/CentOS/AlmaLinux/Fedora).
I’m comfortable (and prefer) doing everything with CLI tools. For me, it’s a bit difficult to convert my Windows friends, as they all see me as some kind of hackerman.
What’s the landscape like nowadays, in terms of terminal requirements?
Bonus question: Which distribution is the most user-friendly while still updated packages? Does anything provide a similar experience to Arch’s amazing AUR?
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As a Rust dev, you can use your terminal entirely without GUI with a multiplexer like tmux, Neovim as your editor, a shit ton of anime CLIs that you can use, and so on.
Bonus question: […] Does anything provide a similar experience to Arch’s amazing AUR?
Nixpkgs and Homebrew are the first ones that come from my head.
Yes. There are distros such as LinuxMint Cinnamon Edition that allow doing everything from the GUI.
The issue is when searching for answers most will provide a solution using the terminal, even when it is doable using the GUI.
I almost asked this exact question today. I installed Ubuntu (Studio) for the first time and almost immediately needed to do some CLI shit because there’s no GUI option to enable jumbo frames. I don’t want to learn CLI. I just want to escape Windows.
I don’t want to learn CLI.
But…like, why? It is less effort than it was to type out the entirety of your post. I will never understand.
It’s not, though. Tying a command doesn’t take a lot of time, but learning what commands are useful in a specific situation does. Even “ls -la” is an achievement you need experience for. And it doesn’t help that if you get stuck and ask (around here or in other enlightened circles) the answer you receive is usually some variant of “Have you read the 40-screen man page?”
Again, though…why is that bad? Did you know how everything in Windows worked the first time you used it? Of course not. Why is this different? There are going to be growing pains to learning anything new. What’s wrong with reading the manual if you don’t know how something works? Isn’t that what they’re for?
Just for the record, these are not the same questions you asked in your first post. But to answer them: nothing is different about this. But at some people don’t want to keep learning how to use stuff, they want to start using it. And there’s a difference between “learn how to use a new vacuum cleaner” (to give a particularly obvious example) and “learn how to use a completely new paradigm that is different from everything you have used before and doesn’t have a clear starting point”. (And before you say that the first steps are easy, let me rename all commands in your CLI and see how quickly you find out how to read a man page.)
Mind you, I’m not talking about myself, having used CLIs since the 80s, but just because I know how to do something doesn’t mean it should be a fun activity for everyone.
But at some people don’t want to keep learning how to use stuff, they want to start using it.
That is impossible, then. I don’t know what else to say to it. You can’t use something without first learning how to use it. Life is learning new things, forever. We don’t know how to do anything without learning first, and in the age of the web learning something has never been easier.
And before you say that the first steps are easy, let me rename all commands in your CLI and see how quickly you find out how to read a man page.
If I wanted to do something, then I’d figure it out. I do this all the time in my work. I don’t know how every tool works, I don’t know how every environment fits together. I still don’t see how this is an argument for “I do not want to learn.”
I still don’t see how this is an argument for “I do not want to learn.”
Because this is just one thing that you clearly know how to do and probably enjoy.
I don’t know how many of the following things you are good at and enjoy, but the same argument applies to all of them: cooking, knitting, repairing a car, welding, growing crops. All of these are desirable and apply to things that most of us use regularly. But you just cannot expect everyone to learn them all in order to enjoy the products they could create or enhance by them. It is not problematic to say you just want to use something and not learn everything that is necessary to create or master it.
If you cannot see that this is true of a CLI, then I have run out of ways to try to explain it to you.
That’s why –help exists
Hell you can use Arch without the terminal if you really wanted to. CachyOS for example uses Octopi which is one of the few Arch Package Manager GUI’s that support both Pacman and AUR. so in that case you may never really need to touch the terminal and Octopi is preinstalled with CachyOS.
Other than that Fedora KDE or Bazzite are good options. But yeah there are few Distros where you really don’t need to use the Terminal if you don’t want to.
On fedora I generally dont need the terminal unless something breaks. Which if I’m being honest with myself probably breaks because I tinkered with stuff via the terminal 🥲 (I’m bad at computer)
Less needed than on Windows.
Best chances to onboard new people are with elementary OS, Linux mint or the new Zoron Linux.
With regular use cases (browsing, mail, music) they shouldn‘t have to use the terminal at all.
Yes, there are several distros that come with many things prepackaged. See Fedora, CachyOS, and Mint for examples.
Just lie and say they will never need to touch the terminal, then help them out when they need to and eventually they will see its not a big deal
Generally you can use use the GUI with things like Nobara Linux.
But most software install instructions are all “copy and paste these commands”.
i use the terminal for work, and some utilities i prefer over gui ones.
if my line of work didn’t require it, i don’t think it would be mandatory for me.
I don’t know why you would want to use linux without the terminal? I mean, you can… but you’ll be limited if you want to do something special or fix a problem. It’s not like you have to know how to code or anything. Often you can copy the commands right into it… It’s really no problem.
People who have been using Windows their entire lives simply get intimidated
I really do think that’s their problem, and software shouldn’t cater to people who are afraid of checks notes typing. There can be real accessibility reasons why some users may require graphical tools due to various disabilities, but I don’t think it’s reasonable to feed into irrational fears of terminals when they can just copy paste in commands. It’s not programming, it’s very simple to understand the syntax of any command the average user might have to use (ie they’re not doing scripting or anything like that).
I think a lot of people are just scared because the terminal is so much more powerful than the gui. The gui won’t let you delete the system but the terminal is happy to let you. People shouldn’t be so scared but they are and I think the use of phones over PCs will exaggerate the problem.
The terminal lets you delete the system with the same checks as GUIs, i.e. you’d be prompted for a privilege escalation password… If you delete random user files in the terminal then you can do that in a graphical file browser too. Just don’t run random commands without knowing what they do.
I know… but they do know how to copy and paste, and that’s what they need to be able to… Those I have told about it, in this way, are relieved and not afraid of it…
Can confirm, I helped a friend put Fedora on their old laptop to give it life again. Even though I wrote them instructions, once it came time for the terminal stuff, they video called me, lol. They love using that laptop now, though! They were in their early 20s for reference.
As someone in this category : wtf? I kept using the terminal all the time when I was still on windows. From 95’s dos to 11’s cmd.
Sure, but then you’re definitely not an average Windows user. I’m trying to get normal people off it
Definetely yes for years now. However, CLI is still preferred.
All the “software stores” I have seen: ubuntu’s software center, flatpack are utter trash. Offensively bad. I’m not sure how you can even get the flatpack store without the terminal.
so, e.g. flatpak tells you to install flatpak via commandline on ubuntu. Apparently it’s built into linux mint.
https://flathub.org/en/setup/Ubuntu
but when trying to install a random app,
https://flathub.org/en/apps/app.curocalc.calculator/install
the instructions are to “download file and execute”, but my filebrowser doesn’t have a “execute this file” option in my right click and double clicking does… nothing? Certainly doesn’t give me a popup with either confirmation or error message.
I’m game to try a few more things, so if you have suggestions what I should try, please tell me.
I’m on xubuntu.
Not sure if this helps, but don’t you need to right click and under permission allow it to run as a program?
Then I can often just double click and run
That’s a good idea! but it doesn’t work for me.
Flatpak is not a store, it’s a package format. Mint has a built-in “Software Manager” GUI app that allows you to browse Flathub and install flatpaks from there. On Xubuntu, I guess you’ll need to install gnome-software or Bazaar, or just the
flatpakpackage if you don’t care about using a GUIThis is one of those intentionally misinterpreting posts that I really really… “dislike” in the linux community.
I guess you’ll need to install gnome-software or Bazaar
…which the official instructions don’t mention, so it’s not a valid answer. Again, I can get it to work, but that’s not the topic of this thread.My intention wasn’t to misinterpret your post; I genuinely thought you were asking for help using flatpaks without the terminal on your Xubuntu setup. As for the topic of this thread, as a Bluefin user, I’d argue that we’re coming very close of being able to daily drive Linux without ever opening the terminal at all.
(also, the Flathub instructions page you’ve linked on your post do mention installing gnome-software)
That is technically true, but
Install GNOME Software Flatpak plugin
The GNOME Software plugin makes it possible to install apps without needing the command line. To install, run:
sudo apt install gnome-software-plugin-flatpakI hope you can see the problem with that.
It did read that page, it just didn’t register because it’s more command line stuff.
I heard the Debian 13 “software store” gives the user the choice between dpkg repo or flatpak for some major software (ig firefox, libreoffice) and that it was pretty lightweight and efficient.
Personaly as a software developer I always use the shell and mostly CLIs and TUIs, and I use Arch/Artix btw. Sometimes I try Flatpaks (for gaming purposes) but I’m always struggling with updates and huge need in storage. For a newbie advice, on Arch, I’d say : use AppImages for the software that isn’t available on Arch repositories, it’s by far the easiest thing to maintain during time and is surely the lightest.
In term of distribution, for a full GUI experience I’d go for Debian, or Mint Debian edition, but sadly for some hardware you still need workarounds that need the terminal use in after the OS install / updates.
Unless you install fresh, run into NO issues. And basically do nothing but websurf, and basic functions, not likely.
Keep in mind, even IF something could be done by GUI, if you ask for help, 95% of the replies are immediately going to tell you to open CLI…
Remember Linux isn’t an OS, it is a collection of 30+ different OSs that are mostly compatible.
The first two thirds of this comment apply to any OS, most of all: windows. I would rather use a terminal any day than edit the registry to fix a basic issue I’m having 🤮
We’re talking about normal people.
Normal people don’t fix computer issues. They also don’t install operating systems, so this is all a bit academic.
Exactly. Windows simps gonna simp.
Keep in mind, even IF something could be done by GUI, if you ask for help, 95% of the replies are immediately going to tell you to open CLI…
To be fair, you’d find that with Windows too; someone telling you to run some command in Powershell or the prompt (even Start > Run).
I would disagree. Almost every Windows tutorial I found for problems told me how to go through the UI. It was even hard to find tutorials for CLI at times because Windows doesn’t provide good CLI tools for things like switching audio devices.
Absolutely not stop lying.
basically do nothing but websurf, and basic functions
That’s 99% of what most people do.
