They are one of several signs of LLM writing. That said if you’ve always used them then you do you
Edit: To the idiots who downvoted me: The article’s author literally mentions that he used AI to write it, so it isn’t speculation on my part. That said, my point still stands: em dashes are just one of several tell-tale signs of LLM writing. See here, here, and here.
Obviously, AI picked this up from writers who used the em dash. However, ChatGPT uses it excessively and so now it is a sign of its writing. Practically speaking you should avoid it in your future writing, since no one really cares if it is a false positive or not.
Final Edit: I see replies stating that from people who’ve been using it for years who don’t want to stop because LLM’s appropriated it. I already left a Lemmy comment here that more-or-less goes over why you should care about optics (especially when writing in an activist adjacent space), but what do I know 🤷
It’s sad, because for most people the use-case for an m-dash is relatively narrow—a parenthetic interjection relevant to the topic (but not sufficiently off-topic for brackets), and needing a subtle call to authority—it mostly popped up in academic or pseudo intellectual non-fiction, or in faulknerian ponderous fiction, but also as a hapless crutch for endlesss neurodivergent layers of qualification.
So I am going to claim disability discrimination about this brutal and unjust sudden boycott, on behalf of crew #adhd.
I just realized that I could have double-layered the m-dashes there, eh? Missed opportunity. Oh what the hell, I need to prolong lunch break juuust a little bit more, so
I just overuse parantheses instead, as you noted. You know you’re rambling when you have several layers of them, like I’m writing a conversation in Lisp.
Ok, you gave a way more reasonable response than the other guy. Thank you for your input; it sucks when something near and dear to you is “taken away” or bastardized in some way.
They are one of several signs of LLM writing. That said if you’ve always used them then you do you
Not the person you replied to but allow me to chime in: I’ve been using em dashes for decades and I will not stop using them because AI has started playing with them—no more than I will stop writing because AI can write too ;)
Let me post an original comment here, since this was apparently divisive.
When communicating orally or through writing (especially regarding topics that lean towards activism, philosophy, politics), you need to understand:
your audience as well as their expectations (this can include point of views on the topic, grammar, punctuation, tone, etc. Yes, that includes now-alienating punctuation like em dashes or flagrant disrespect for graceful degradation of your blog)
your own voice (pretty much the same as above, but your version of it)
how to bridge 1 and 2 (this is sometimes called “meeting people where they are”)
when to challenge audience expectations.
when to have your expectations challenged.
It is essentially a game of tango.
Let me give you an example.
A year ago I started a blog on FOSS and setting up homelabs (not linking to it on this account). A friend of mine was supportive, although he had no idea what FOSS was. He was using pretty much all of the big tech services you could think of.
That said, I still took time to hear him out. I didn’t make fun of him when he complained about Spotify’s price increases, or shows being pulled from Netflix, and other shitty practices. I understood where he was coming from: most of these services have high advertising budgets and so in most cases this is all he knew.
Once I realized where he was coming from, I explained what FOSS was in terms he would understand, and in ways that just about anyone would appreciate. What was the result? Nowadays he is a user in my homelab and he gives regular feedback on my blog. Furthermore, this discussion directed some of my earlier articles, giving them a much appreciated conversational tone. This was a excellent end result that could only have been reached by balancing idealism with pragmatism.
My main point is: you need to understand and play this game of tango. If you don’t, you risk alienating your audience without ever having the opportunity to challenge them (and them challenging you). As an example, look at people in this thread who didn’t even read the article due to the author’s brazen use of AI; it went entirely against their expectations, so a discussion was never had with the author and his topics.
Edit: spelling, grammar, and mention of blog presentation
You’re not getting downvoted for the LLM thing. You’re getting downvoted for doubling down on a stupid argument. Em dashes – and en dashes for that matter – have legitimate uses in the English language. One symptom does not make a diagnosis. English is barely a respectable language in the first place. Dumbing it down even further to satisfy your preconceptions is, simply, stupid.
Read what I wrote again, slowly. Ask ChatGPT to summarize if you need to:
“However, ChatGPT uses it excessively and so now it is a sign of its writing. Practically speaking you should avoid it in your future writing, since no one really cares if it is a false positive or not.”
Anti-intellectualism as a defence. Nice. Abandon grammar and take language where an LLM can’t follow. Surely we’ll be able to tell a text written by a human from one written by a machine if the human writes it like a dumbass, I can’t see anything wrong with that. i mean why even use proper punctuation and capitalization an ai wouldnt write sumthin like dis isnnnt it better you can tell a human wrote dis
Anyways if you go back to my original comment, you’ll see that my original Javascript comments were written as advice towards prospective blog / site owners, in an attempt to get them to create something UX friendly. My comments on LLM are an extension of that: if you use AI (or write closely to AI) to write your blog you’ll just shake your readers’ confidence.
I have no idea where you got anti-intellectualism from, you’ll have to show me the hat you pulled that from sometime. That said you can substitute em dashes, they don’t hold dominion over the English language lol
Edit: Oh you edited your comment without putting an Edit line. The above was a reply to your original comment. I’m not changing mine
Are we at war with em dashes now? —? I’m starting to feel like the only person who actually knows how to type them on a keyboard.
They are one of several signs of LLM writing. That said if you’ve always used them then you do you
Edit: To the idiots who downvoted me: The article’s author literally mentions that he used AI to write it, so it isn’t speculation on my part. That said, my point still stands: em dashes are just one of several tell-tale signs of LLM writing. See here, here, and here.
Obviously, AI picked this up from writers who used the em dash. However, ChatGPT uses it excessively and so now it is a sign of its writing. Practically speaking you should avoid it in your future writing, since no one really cares if it is a false positive or not.
Final Edit: I see replies stating that from people who’ve been using it for years who don’t want to stop because LLM’s appropriated it. I already left a Lemmy comment here that more-or-less goes over why you should care about optics (especially when writing in an activist adjacent space), but what do I know 🤷
It’s sad, because for most people the use-case for an m-dash is relatively narrow—a parenthetic interjection relevant to the topic (but not sufficiently off-topic for brackets), and needing a subtle call to authority—it mostly popped up in academic or pseudo intellectual non-fiction, or in faulknerian ponderous fiction, but also as a hapless crutch for endlesss neurodivergent layers of qualification.
So I am going to claim disability discrimination about this brutal and unjust sudden boycott, on behalf of crew #adhd.
Edit: shits and giggles
I both resent and resemble that remark.
I just realized that I could have double-layered the m-dashes there, eh? Missed opportunity. Oh what the hell, I need to prolong lunch break juuust a little bit more, so
I just overuse parantheses instead, as you noted. You know you’re rambling when you have several layers of them, like I’m writing a conversation in Lisp.
Ok, you gave a way more reasonable response than the other guy. Thank you for your input; it sucks when something near and dear to you is “taken away” or bastardized in some way.
Well, full lulz as that was tongue in cheek although not wrong! And appreciation for the semicolon. Punctuators: Rise Up!
Ahem, edited for consistency.
LMAO well at least you weren’t a dick about it. Cheers and rise up lol
Not the person you replied to but allow me to chime in: I’ve been using em dashes for decades and I will not stop using them because AI has started playing with them—no more than I will stop writing because AI can write too ;)
Let me post an original comment here, since this was apparently divisive.
When communicating orally or through writing (especially regarding topics that lean towards activism, philosophy, politics), you need to understand:
It is essentially a game of tango.
Let me give you an example.
A year ago I started a blog on FOSS and setting up homelabs (not linking to it on this account). A friend of mine was supportive, although he had no idea what FOSS was. He was using pretty much all of the big tech services you could think of.
That said, I still took time to hear him out. I didn’t make fun of him when he complained about Spotify’s price increases, or shows being pulled from Netflix, and other shitty practices. I understood where he was coming from: most of these services have high advertising budgets and so in most cases this is all he knew.
Once I realized where he was coming from, I explained what FOSS was in terms he would understand, and in ways that just about anyone would appreciate. What was the result? Nowadays he is a user in my homelab and he gives regular feedback on my blog. Furthermore, this discussion directed some of my earlier articles, giving them a much appreciated conversational tone. This was a excellent end result that could only have been reached by balancing idealism with pragmatism.
My main point is: you need to understand and play this game of tango. If you don’t, you risk alienating your audience without ever having the opportunity to challenge them (and them challenging you). As an example, look at people in this thread who didn’t even read the article due to the author’s brazen use of AI; it went entirely against their expectations, so a discussion was never had with the author and his topics.
Edit: spelling, grammar, and mention of blog presentation
I’m not going to let LLMs enstupidify my writing.
I’ll continue using en dashes and em dashes — they’re very easy to type on macos, iOS, and Android.
Alright then. If you were always using them correctly then you do you
You’re not getting downvoted for the LLM thing. You’re getting downvoted for doubling down on a stupid argument. Em dashes – and en dashes for that matter – have legitimate uses in the English language. One symptom does not make a diagnosis. English is barely a respectable language in the first place. Dumbing it down even further to satisfy your preconceptions is, simply, stupid.
“One symptom does not make a diagnosis.”
Read what I wrote again, slowly. Ask ChatGPT to summarize if you need to: “However, ChatGPT uses it excessively and so now it is a sign of its writing. Practically speaking you should avoid it in your future writing, since no one really cares if it is a false positive or not.”
Anti-intellectualism as a defence. Nice. Abandon grammar and take language where an LLM can’t follow. Surely we’ll be able to tell a text written by a human from one written by a machine if the human writes it like a dumbass, I can’t see anything wrong with that. i mean why even use proper punctuation and capitalization an ai wouldnt write sumthin like dis isnnnt it better you can tell a human wrote dis
Have I made my point?
Anti-intellectualism… lol?
Anyways if you go back to my original comment, you’ll see that my original Javascript comments were written as advice towards prospective blog / site owners, in an attempt to get them to create something UX friendly. My comments on LLM are an extension of that: if you use AI (or write closely to AI) to write your blog you’ll just shake your readers’ confidence.
I have no idea where you got anti-intellectualism from, you’ll have to show me the hat you pulled that from sometime. That said you can substitute em dashes, they don’t hold dominion over the English language lol
Edit: Oh you edited your comment without putting an Edit line. The above was a reply to your original comment. I’m not changing mine
Also weird:
Again, can’t make this up