I find the idea of self-hosting to be really appealing, but at the same time I find it to be incredibly scary. This is not because I lack the technical expertise, but because I have gotten the impression that everyone on the Internet would immediately try to hack into it to make it join their bot net. As a result, I would have to be constantly vigilant against this, yet one of the numerous assailants would only have to succeed once. Dealing with this constant threat seems like it would be frightening enough as a full-time job, but this would only be a hobby project for me.
How do the self-hosters on Lemmy avoid becoming one with the botnet?
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- routine patching
- siem log aggregation
- proper alerting metrics and notifications
- routine virus scanning
- proper network segregation between your NATd network and your personal network
- firewall firewall firewall
- expose your applications to the internet through a WAF, never directly
if you can do all these things properly, then there shouldn’t be too much danger in selfhosting your apps publicly.
Well for one its not as automatic as it sounds. Basic protections will get you far. I have a minecraft server exposed but it only accepts connections from 3 specific places. Remember its the same as ever other real life deterrant, make yourself less of a target than the next guy. It also really helps not having juicy company data on your network. Home networks are way less of a target because you dont have any fine booty to loot.
Yes…yet another comment. LOL Something you should do from the very start is take notes of everything you do on the server. I use Notepad++ for the rough draft while I’m setting something up. Copy/paste, write out commands, notations, what this or that does. Take prolific notes. I really can’t stress that enough. That way, if you need to back out of something, or if the wheels fall off, you can go right back to your notes. Don’t be lulled into the idea that you will be able to remember every last keystroke you’ve made. That rarely happens. Take notes.
When I have successfully deployed whatever I’m working on, then I go back, take my notes, clean them up, and place them in Obsidian and make backups of them.
Makin notes is good for sonething very simple. It’s better to automate deployment with salt, ansible or something similar. A bit more effort at first setup, much easier restoration. Self-documented.
In another life I worked as a Mech Eng for a Contractor firm. The rule was ‘If you didn’t write it down, it didn’t happen’. Over the years, that has bled into my personal life as well. I hear what you’re saying, and from what I’ve digested regarding Ansible, it is a quite powerful and capable package. However, let’s let OP stand up his first server. He’s already stressed about not being a botnet victim. So, perhaps some rudimentary steps are in order. Then you can blow his mind with Ansible. LOL
Tailscale on everything
That’s the point. It taught me things that I wouldn’t learn if it weren’t for that scared feeling. I agree that some sensitive things are better off my server.
You should start small and keep only things you want to be public, and services under basic logins. First logins, maybe admin admin but slowly you will get better and also place fail2ban and crowdsec. Once you have enough confidence and years of service on your belt. You can trust it with sensitive files under heavy guard.
It’s all about server hardening. See https://blog.melroy.org/2023/server-hardening/
Wow is that ever a load of snake oil.
I see this kind of guide as actively harmful because it creates a false sense of security.
Is there bad advise on there?
I skimmed it and there’s lots of good advice I think.
I’m no security expert and this is an honest question.
Disabling su is stupid because you always need some form of privilege escalation, restricting sudo to apt offers no security benefit whatsoever as apt allows arbitrary file modification, disabling root ssh provides no benefit when the unprivileged user has sudo access – I could go on.
Thanks for these insights.
Us newbs have much to learn
Just use tailscale and don’t forward any ports and you’ll be fine
There’s a lot of technical answers here, but Tailscale is what you want OP. Self-hosting is only a risk if you open ports. Tailscale doesn’t require opening any ports.
Alternatively, you could set up your own VPN and forward one port to the VPN. The risk of port forwarding to VPN such as Wireguard or OpenVPN is minimal.
The risk of being attacked applies to those that port forward web traffic so it can be accessed without a VPN by themselves or others. If you don’t do that, the risk is very low.
Is it bad to forward ports temporarily to game with friends? And deactivate after?
I dont have the energy to learn new fanglad networking since everything is so insecure now…im used to 2009 servers.
It’s not really complicated at all you just download the tailscale app make an account and then hit share to your friends. That’s how I run a Minecraft server for me and my friends because I was too lazy to figure out how to port forward. It was easier to just sudo apt install tailscale and essentially be done.
That sounds so easy my friends could do it! Ill need to read up
No?
I mean, how else are you meant to play the game actually?
I guess you could be like opening ports just to particular IPs. And you need a game that isn’t Swiss cheese that gets immediately hacked.
But like hackers don’t sort of seep in through port forwards; they need to physically identify and exploit a particular vulnerability.
Ah. Well mostly it’s for voxelibre or armegatron nowadays
Exactly what I wanted to say + don’t install something you don’t trust.
Outbound firewall and SMAC protections.
If you compromise my server you’ll struggle to phone home without manual intervention, which is good enough to stop botnets.
pFsense + IDS/IPS segmenting network and a robust set of rules would pretty much get you there.
Only expose services internally then use a secure VPN to access your services, this makes your network no more vulnerable in practice than not self hosting. If you need/want to expose something to the internet, make sure you setup your network right. Use a DMZ to separate that service and leverage something like CrowdSec along with good passwords, antivirus, and keep things patched.
How do I check this? I route everything on my internal network only. But how should I make sure its not accessible remotely? I cannot just have these on an air gapped network.
Throw your IP into Shodan.io and see what it comes back with.
You can run a port scan against your public IP from another network to see what is open. But if you haven’t specifically set something up for external access through port forwarding you are probably fine.
Thanks for the CrowdSec tip, I’ve already got an nginx reverse proxy set up but wasn’t aware I could integrate this for extra protection.
Should I do the same if I want to expose an OpenAI compatible API to access an LLM to chat remotely on local technical documents?
It doesn’t usually matter what the service is, the basic concepts are the same. If you want to access a service you host on your internal network from another external network you either need to use a VPN to securely connect into your network, or expose the service directly. If you are exposing it directly you should put it (or a proxy like NPM) in your DMZ. The specifics of how to do this though will vary from service to service and with your specific network config.
Damn dawg, reading this made me not wanna self host my own instance. I was considering it.
Hey, now, just because I am an overly paranoid person does not mean that you have to be as well!
Step 1 is to do everything inside your network with data you don’t care about. Get comfortable starting services, visiting them locally, and playing around with them. See what you like and don’t like. Feel free to completely nuke everything and start from scratch a few times. (Containers like Docker make this super easy).
Step 2 is to start relying on it for things inside your network. Have a NAS, maybe home assistant, or some other services like Immich or Navidrome. Figure out how to give services access to your data without relying on them to not harm it (use read only mounts, permissions, snapshots, etc.)
Step 3 is to figure out how to make services more accessible away from home. Whether that is via a VPN, or something like tailscale, or just carefully opening specific ports to specific secure and up-to-date services. This is the part you’re feeling anxious about, and I think you’ll feel less anxious if you do steps 1 and 2 first and not even think about 3 yet. Consider it its own challenge, and just do one challenge at a time.
Have a limited attack surface will reduce exposure.
If, say, the only thing that you’re exposing is, oh, say, a Wireguard VPN, then unless there’s a misconfiguration or remotely-exploitable bug in Wireguard, then you’re fine regarding random people running exploit scanners.
I’m not too worried about stuff like (vanilla) Apache, OpenSSH, Wireguard, stuff like that, the “big” stuff that have a lot of eyes on them. I’d be a lot more dubious about niche stuff that some guy just threw together.
To put perspective on this, you gotta remember that most software that people run isn’t run in a sandbox. It can phone home. Games on Steam. If your Web browser has bugs, it’s got a lot of sites that might attack it. Plugins for that Web browser. Some guy’s open-source project. That’s a potential vector too. Sure, some random script kiddy running an exploit scanner is a potential risk, but my bet is that if you look at the actual number of compromises via that route, it’s probably rather lower than plain old malware.
It’s good to be aware of what you’re doing when you expose the Internet to something, but also to keep perspective. A lot of people out there run services exposed to the Internet every day; they need to do so to make things work.
The ‘immediate attacks’ ppl mention is just static background noise. Server / scripts that run trying to find misconfigured, highly out to date or exploitable endpoints/servers/software.
Once you update your software, set up basic brute force protection and maybe regional blocking, you do not have to worry about this kind of attack.
Much more scary are so called 0-Day attacks.
- No one will waste an expensive exploit on you
- It sometimes can happen that 0-Days that get public get widly exploited and take long time to get closed like for example log4shell was. Here is work necessary to inform yourself and disable things accorsing to what is patched and what not.
As i already said, no one will waste time on you, there are so much easier targets out there that do not follow those basic rules or actually valuable targets.
There is obviously more that you can do, like hiding everything behind a VPN or advanced thread detections. Also choosing the kind of software you want to run is relevant.
What are you referring to when you say basic brute force protection?
The other answer is already good but I answer more general.
Rate limiting. Do not allow as many requests as your CPU can handle but limit authentication requests. Like a couple requests per second already goes a long way.
fail2ban mainly, but also things like scaling login delays (some sort of option often built into the software you’re running, but just as often not configured by default), or if you’re feeling particularly paranoid account locking after too many failures, and in general just not using default, predictable, common usernames or weak passwords, and honestly it’s even helped a bit by having slow hardware and throttled network bandwidth.
The goal is to make it so that someone can’t run a script that sends 100 million login attempts per second for common or stolen usernames and passwords and your server just helpfully tries them all and obediently tells them none of those worked… until one of them does.
Not only does this encourage them to TRY sending 100 million login attempts per second because your server isn’t refusing it, which is a huge waste of bandwidth and resources, it also makes it really likely that they’re eventually going to guess one right.
Would something like Anubis or Iocaine prevent what you’re worried about?
I haven’t used either, but from what I understand they’re both lightweight programs to prevent bot scraping. I think Anubis analyzes web traffic and blocks bots when detected, and Iocaine does something similar but also creates a maze of garbage data to redirect those bots into, in order to poison the AI itself and consume excessive resources on the end of the companies attempting to scrape the data.
Obviously what others have said about firewalls, VPNs, and antivirus still applies; maybe also a rootkit hunter and Linux Malware Detect? I’m still new to this though, so you probably know more about all that than I do. Sorry if I’m stating the obvious.
Not sure if this is overkill but maybe Network Security Toolkit might have some helpful tools as well?
It’s mostly automated exploit finders looking for low hanging fruit. fail2ban and up to date software is your friend.
