As much as I want to support the idea of a well supported, modernised graphical protocol system, wayland simply isn’t ready yet. There’s so much shit that simply doesn’t work, and they’re all made up of little niche cases that will take substantially longer than a few months to resolve, and I still haven’t seen anything that suggests Wayland has a practical equivalent to xorg.conf.

Is Alma Linux rolling their own version of Plasma with x11? Or are they just sticking with an older version of Plasma? Is anyone else planning on hacking x11 back into the DE?

edit: To the people leaping down my throat, the last time I tried wayland was around five months ago. I have a substantial list of thi gs noted down somewhere that I was considering trting to work around or fix. off the top of my head:

  • remote desktop is a fucking pain. remmina would not allow a multiple monitor remote session at all, and a single monitor session was frequently unstable. What I really wanted was something simple that I could start from a bash script, like XFreeRDP.

  • nvidia drivers were spotty at best. I’m not too fussed about them being proprietary, but they never seemed to quite function properly. I have a 1660ti.

  • applications in general felt sluggish

  • it was hit/miss when attempting to disable desktop composition. sometimes it would cease, sometimes it would not. for skme full-screen applications, I require this as desktop composition can make input responses fairly latent. Trying to type out a class is unpleasant and somewhat halting when it takes 200ms for a character to appear after it is typed.

  • lack of a pre-init config option. I currently use a xorgconf to set screen position, layout, and resolution (including a virtual resolution) before any graphical environment starts. this stops my vertical monjtor being displayed sideways before I log in. I have yet to see something similar for wayland, but this feels like it should exist - please prove me wrong.

  • screen tearing. although the environment claims to be running my monitors at 60hz, a 60fps test sample revealed they were actually being driven at 50hz. thjs is not a hardware limitation, as all my monitors currently drive at 60hz.

  • application and desktop sharing. this flat out didn’t work. I’m told it should work, but it doesn’t.

here’s the thing. I’m not arguing against the inclusion of wayland. I’m very pleased that we have new options. I’m arguing that we should have the choice to choose the most suitable option for some time yet. I like Plasma a lot h despite it being horribly bloated, unnecessarily complex, and somehow oddly lacking in some basic features whilst simultaneously having some fantastic built-ins such as window rules.

so no, this isn’t a “self report” as one profoundly inciteful respondent put it. this is me looking for any possible solution that will allow me to run a modern DE whilst retaining features that I require.

  • non_burglar@lemmy.world
    71·
    19 hours ago

    I appreciate your response.

    I am happy that keyboard and other I/o are being treated as separate from a security perspective.

    Xorg fans

    I am not as impressed by this comment snippet.

    I am not a “fan” of xorg, and you should absolutely stop looking at it this way. This isn’t a matter of having a favourite car manufacturer. I am not commenting to convince everyone that xorg is “better”.

    I simply use xorg. I have work to do, I use Linux to do it. My most stable and predictable configuration is using xfce, it just stays out of the way. I don’t care about ricing. I don’t GAF about GPU accelerated terminal emulators, especially when they bonk trying to connect to Solaris tty. I don’t care about HDR. If you do care about these things, that’s great, I’m not trying to diminish that.

    I have been using Linux for almost 30 years, professionally for almost 25. I have been through Mir. I have somehow made it through alsa transition to pulseaudio, which sucked. I have been through Unity, the ffmpeg debacle, systemd, ndis wrappers, netplan, etc. Some of these new tooling options are better than previous ones, some aren’t. They effectively get the job done, and that’s the bottom line.

    Never in my Linux experience have I seen such a sudden push to not only move everyone to new tooling, but to cast everyone using the old tools as somehow “refusing to move on”, especially in the last 2 or 3 years.

    There will come a time when you will see your current tooling will be left behind and you’ll be in my situation. Have some grace about it.

    And stop calling me an xorg “fan”.

    • LeFantome@programming.dev
      35·
      15 hours ago

      Um.

      First, I am not trying to recruit you to Wayland. Do what you want. I am responding to your demand to explain what is better about it and your implication that the answer is “nothing”.

      Apparently you like Xorg. You like it enough that you see nothing better about Wayland. Given that, getting bent out of shape about the word “fan” appearing in my response is a bit excessive. Protest too much? Christ.

      And I did not even apply that term to you specifically. I just answered your bloody question. A question that was grumpy to start with. Grace you say?

      Finally, I have been using Linux since well before 1.0 when I had to spend all night on a Sun workstation downloading floppy images. And half the next day guessing mode lines for my monitor to make XFree86 work and fixing build scrips for whatever I was trying to run on it. I moved straight from OS/2 to Linux though I installed BSD/386 before that. I own both SGI and Sun (Solaris era) hardware.

      My preferred Linux distro does not use Glibc, GCC, GNU utils, or systemd.

      I doubt if there are many Linux technologies you have encountered that I have not. So I am not sure what point you think you are making.

      That said, it sounds like you used Ubuntu a whole lot more than I did. I better walk around these egg shells before I ask if you liked it.